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  •  I'm glad you're tracking; if only (4.00 / 15)

    those on the flight could be arrested next time they land in Frankfurt under Germany's anti-war crimes laws!

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln

    by LondonYank on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 03:59:14 AM PDT

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    •  I'm not really (none / 0)

      tracking it; I picked up the tailnumber from an IndyMedia site, and the planespotters from a googling.

      As for arrests (or at least being boarded and searched), I would very much like to see that happen.  But realistically I don't think the German government would want to cause a diplomatic incident with the hegemon over something as piffling as torture.  Unless Germans make them, that is.

      Also, I expect that given the publicity, they will have another plane by now.  We'll just have to wait for more reports of renditions, and hope the witnesses get the tailnumber.

      Idiot/Savant
      No Right Turn - New Zealand's second-best liberal blog

    •  Germany can't (none / 0)

      If the US had to abandon all bases in the country, that might have a negative effect on an already-sluggish economy.

      'Screw you guys, I'm going home' -- Eric Cartman

      by Neil Stevens on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 05:41:51 AM PDT

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    •  Civil Suit in U.S.? (none / 0)

      Never mind prosecution in Germany.  I have a feeling that is never going to happen.

      Would anybody have standing to bring a civil suit against these guys in the U.S.?

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 07:39:08 AM PDT

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      •  Immunity? (none / 0)

        I know that there is precedent from the President being sued for actions while in office due to Presidential immunity.

        However...I don't know if that necessarily extends past the President to the VP or other cabinet-level positions.

        Would be interested if there's any attorneys out there that could comment on this.

        "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

        by grannyhelen on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 07:45:05 AM PDT

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        •  Unlike Europe (4.00 / 2)

          which assumes the rule of law by government, the Americans follow the British tradition of "sovereign immunity".  As a general rule the government, per se, cannot be sued for money damage without its consent, and individuals can be sued only for, under color of law, intentionally depriving someone of a clearly defined constitutional right.  Moreover, some officials like judges and policy makers, have an even greater level of legal protection.  Even when, e.g. Rumsfield, is sued in an official capacity in the United States, this is just another way of suing the government, he isn't personally responsible for any damages awarded.

          In practice, the only remedy against an incumbent President for abhorent policy decisions is impeachment.

          President Clinton's legal troubles set the precedent that governmental immunity is limited to the official acts of the President, and not to suits arising out of the private life of the President unrelated to his official duties.

          "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire

          by ohwilleke on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 09:18:05 AM PDT

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      •  I don't know for sure (none / 0)

        But I don't think recent court rulings on Guantanamo issues have originated solely from US citizens.  I plan to research it as the issue is so huge and ugly that I need to be on top of the facts.

        NetrootNews coming soon!

        by ksh01 on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 08:37:06 AM PDT

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    •  If they're operating out of Germany (none / 0)

      There's a good chance the German intelligence service is in on it.

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